cheating?

[didvenusblowyourmind]

I'm going to preface this by saying that it is my personal opinion and is not about anyone on my flist.

That being said:

Cheating. I. Don't. Get. It.

Someone explain it to me. When is it okay to cheat? What makes anyone think this is acceptable? Or, on the flip side, what makes a person say this is wrong but I'm doing it anyway.

Now, I am not presuming there are hard and fast rules. I am not presuming all situations are the same. I am not speaking of mutually agreed upon open relationships. Nor am I even really speaking of one-time flings, because people fuck up. I am talking about repeated cheating. When you cheat, and then you go back for more. And I am talking about enablers.

Now, I do not classify those who help as equally as guilty as those who are cheating, because in the end it is your responsibilty as the one in the relationship to make that choice to cheat or not. However, knowingly helping someone cheat is shitty.

What makes people cheat? I haven't been there, so I can't say. But I have always felt that, unless there was a reason I couldn't get out, unless I felt threatened, I would rather leave than cheat. Because it is absolutely and positively unfair to cheat on someone in order to see if things work with someone else or because you're horny or drunk or anything. The idea that they didn't want to fuck up a relationship over a one-night stand they really wanted is ridiculous. No one said relationships are easy. No one said you won't be attracted to someone else and be tempted. I am not talking about temptation. I am talking about making that leap, and breaking your commitment. Being drunk is not an excuse. I have been drunk off my ass. I have never not had the capacity to decide whether or not to sleep with someone or to not know if it was okay or not. If you are actually so drunk that it takes away your ability to decide, then you have a PROBLEM and need to call AA. Cheating is just crappy. It's a lame excuse and an easy way out. I don't care how often you want to say it's really difficult and it makes you feel bad and you wish things could be different blah blah blah. You have a fucking choice and you make that choice, and if you want to run around on someone, that's your choice but karma is a bitch and you will get exactly what is coming to you.

And helping someone to cheat ... is shitty. It's really fucking shitty. He's unhappy in a relationship, he's going to leave his wife ... those are lousy excuses. And that's exactly what they are. They're excuses to make yourself feel better about doing something crappy. I'm not talking about not knowing someone was involved. I am talking about the fact that some asshole came to you wanting to cheat, and you willingly helped him make someone else into a fool. A cheater will cheat. He'll go somewhere else and do it without you. (Oh, you didn't realize that? Sorry. You aren't special. You're means to an end.) But that doesn't mean YOU need to help. Helping someone to cheat is being an enabler, and that's just crappy, regardless of what lies he feeds you. Because, guess what: he's not going to leave her. You aren't different. You're the piece of ass on the side, nothing more and nothing less. And even if you are, by some off chance, more than that ... what in the world makes you think you'll be any different? Because once upon a time, she was more too. Your time will be up, and you'll just be part of the cycle. I cannot even believe the number of people who get all upset when their relationship sucks when they're the other woman! Do those words have no meaning? Other, as in secondary, as in afterthought.

And yes, I've been an enabler. I was fifteen, and it's not something I would ever do now. Even then, it was a shitty thing to do and I feel shitty about it. And it's exactly as I said it was -- fucking nothing, and shitty.

But I guess it will always go on. In the meantime, I'm interested to hear your thoughts -- is cheating okay? Under certain circumstances? When? Why? Why not?

Comments

[purplecrayon01.livejournal.com]

OK, well I've never cheated on anyone, so I'm not exactly sure what the motivations behind it are. I'm sure some of it involves boredom, revenge, human error, etc., none of which are particularly good reasons, but that's what I've seen in my personal experience.

I have, however, been an enabler, as you put. Several times. With several different people. You're right, it is shitty. It made me feel shitty. I have no excuse for why I did it, or why I did it with more than one person. I chalk most of it up to me being jealous and extremely low self esteem that has always made it hard for me to say no to someone, even when I know it is "wrong." Sometimes our heads know the difference between right and wrong, but our heart (which I tend to use more frequently) doesn't know which way is up or down, just what feels good.

For me, cheating has always been a really, really gray area. Are there instances when I think it is black and white? Sure. It's wrong, it's bad, and most likely, it should end a relationship. But do I also believe that cheating and the resulting actions need to be considered on a case by case basis? Yes. Absolutely. I don't think it would be fair for me to sit here and say that I would NEVER cheat or I would NEVER stay with someone who cheated on me. I can't think of what the reasons would be now why I would, but like I said, it's a gray area. I believe that sometimes, good people truly do make awful mistakes and regret it more than anything. Not to say they shouldn't be punished, but I don't think it necessarily has to be a relationship-ender.

As for being the one who helps someone cheat...the circumstances there can be tricky, as well. I'm not going to sit here and tell people that what they're doing is wrong and evil. Mostly because I know most people who do it are honestly doing it because they are or think they are in love with the person who is cheating. You can't help who you love. You really can't. You have a choice in not acting on that love, but you don't have a choice in the actual loving.

And ... to quote a wise show, "Love makes you do the wacky."

I don't know. I can't offer anything much besides my experience with it, and even then, it's such a confusing and controversial thing. I'll leave it with my basic principle: Cheating sucks. For everyone involved. I wish it didnt happen. But it's not this black and white thing that people seem to think it is - for me, anyway.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_venus_/]

I agree that it is definitely not a black and white thing. There are definitely shades of grey. To me, though, it seems like a lot of people I meet (and this is not based on friends, but on people I meet, and so it must be kept in mind that these are people who are willing to tell near-strangers about their cheating escapades) are quick to justify their actions.

I've been an enabler too. Not recently, but in the past, and of course no one can ever say NEVER again with certainty. The way I see it, though, is that you're completely right about not being able to choose who you love. But I feel that I would rather live without, than have only half of it because I love them, but they don't love me enough to be with me.

But then, I haven't been in that situation, so it's hard to say. I feel like it's not black and white like some people claim, but it's also not as grey as some people like to pretend it is. I guess it bugs me when people won't own up to it -- ie, no I'm not cheating, it doesn't count because I don't love him anymore, or no, I'm not helping someone else cheat, it doesn't count because she's a bitch, you know?

That's also why I noted the exception for occasional fuck-ups. People fuck up. It happens. It's shitty and they should know better, but it happens. I haven't been in the situation personally, but I would be much more inclined to forgive a transgression that was regretted and not repeated than one that happened again and again. I can even go with the idea that for whatever reason, someone is so drunk/out of it/sad/confused that they cheat once ... I just don't think it's possible to do it repeatedly without having thought of the consequences -- or actively ignored them. If that makes any sense!

[purplecrayon01.livejournal.com]

You know, I've been thinking about this post for the last couple of days. And the one thing that bothers me the most is that it doesn't bother me enough. Not cheating, per se. I mean, that does bother me, and it pisses me off when it happens to my friends and stuff.

But I suppose I feel like I just don't have this really strong emotional feeling about it like so many other people seem to. It's almost like I waver, almost like I defend it, even if that's not what I intend to do. I'm just of the camp where I overanaylze and try to see more than one side and ... well, obviously I've had my fair share of experience with cheating.

You're right though about continual cheating. THAT I have a big time problem with. There are reasons for doing it, I suppose, but I wish people could just be honest. I wish people didnt stay together for the sake of their kids, because don't they realize they're just hurting their kids MORE by staying together, knowing that one of them would rather be with someone else??! It just doesn't make sense. I suppose I have a more strong reaction to people "staying together for the kids" than someone who will go off and cheat. Weird.

So you can pretty much just ignore this nonsensical rambling. Basically, i still have no idea where officially i stand on the topic of cheating. Just how I feel about a lot of things. I have a lot of opinions on a lot of stuff, they just never seem to mesh, and more often than not actually contradict one another, so maybe I should just stop pretending that I know what I'm talking about.

[hiddenglitter.livejournal.com]

Simple... there is NO REASON that cheating is ever considered ok. NONE.

Just my opinion, of course! ^.^

I have never cheated and have never thought to cheat. I have been devistated by being cheated on... so why would I ever want to cause that type of harm to someone else?

Robert's ex had a bad cheating problem. Sadly, he doesn't know how many times she in fact cheated on him... sadly I do know the number. Hell, I even witnessed a couple of her cheating romps before I knew she was with Robert (before him and I got together). But I don't think I could ever tell him that number... nor of what I had witnessed. I know he is fragile when it comes to that type of situation. I would hate to bring any hurt on him, even if it wasn't me doing the cheating... ya know?

Although, prevous to myself getting cheated on.... I was an enabler. And I will NEVER do that again....

[http://users.livejournal.com/_venus_/]

I totally understand what you're saying. I've been an enabler in the past, though I was 15 and I don't think I thought anything out at 15. Nonetheless, I think that in a way, it's easier to ignore the gravity of the situation if you're not the one cheating. And to a degree, it is less of a problem, in my opinion, because the one with the significant other is the one that really has to be responsible, but still, helping someone else is bad too. I think it's just easier to pretend it's not, or that it's just a normal relationship, or that there is no other woman (or man) when you don't have to go home to them!

[deathbycynicism.livejournal.com]

As the recipient of such of behaviour, twice, I feel I can just say that I agree with what you're saying, more or less. With clear emphasis on "It's shitty".

Not cool. Especially more than once. By different girls.

Le sigh.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_venus_/]

:( That's so not cool. The way I feel is ... I would so much rather someone be honest and tell me, I'm not happy and I want out then to go behind my back and betray my trust. Because one way, I'm alone, but the other way, I'm still alone and I can't trust anyone.

[thewesternsky.livejournal.com]

This is wrong but I'm doing it anyway.

I think, really, you've captured a lot of it right there. People do things that are wrong all the time. All it takes is for the benefits to outweigh the risks or the guilt. I'm not saying that cheating on a significant other is the exact *same* as cheating on a test or stealing a candy bar, but I think the motivations are largely similar. It feels good. They won't get caught. So why not?

The only OTHER reason I can see for people cheating is if they've honestly fallen in love with someone else. Maybe their marriage is falling apart already, and they're no longer in love with the person they're with. I don't think it's possible to be in love with two people at once, but if you're not in love with your wife anymore-- In that case, I can see how someone could slowly fall for someone they spend a lot of time with already, like a friend or coworker. This still isn't *right*, but I do have a little bit more sympathy for people in this situation. Of course, I don't understand how people fall out of love in the first place. *shrug*.

Cheating is never okay, and I hate that people do it. I can't say that I'd never cheat or enable a cheater, but I can't see myself being able to do anything like that any time soon. It just feels too wrong to me. It would take a heck of a lot of benefit to outweigh that kind of guilt for me personally.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_venus_/]

I totally agree with your motivations statement. And in a lot of ways, it is similar to cheating on a test etc. The main difference, I think, is that in cheating on a test, or something like that, you're mainly hurting yourself, while in cheating on an SO, there's a third party involved who is getting hurt in the process.

As for the falling out of love thing ... I can kind of get that. I just feel like if they're falling out of love with someone or in love with another person, then there's a lot of stuff going on that needs to be worked out. Jumping into a new, or concurrent, relationship is not going to fix anything, it's just going to make the situation worse. Plus, I feel that if someone is in a loveless marriage ... they either need to work to fix it, or leave. I don't feel staying together for the kids is a good reason, and especially not if there's a third party involved. To me, falling in love with someone else is one thing ... and it sucks, but I can see how it can be beyond someone's control. Acting on that, while still with someone else, is different.

Honestly, I can say that there have been times when I have wondered what it would be like to cheat. Mainly when I was depressed and confused and felt like something with no emotional attachment would be easier, and maybe it was easier for me not to because I never had anyone in mind to cheat with, but either way, I still had to outweigh the gains and the losses, and there is no world I can see in which a night or two of forgetting is worth hurting myself and and someone else.

[priceofamemory.livejournal.com]

I think when it comes to cheating, there is no one correct definition - everyone's got their own terms, ideas, and rules, and that's one thing that makes it such a sticky subject. A person can point a finger at someone and cry "cheating!" while that someone may not consider it so.

My own definition is still murky, I guess. Mostly it has to do with each individual relationship and how the two parties in it view said relationship. In one partnership, it may get to the point where thinking of him dancing sexy or flirting to extreme measures with another girl would turn my stomach, and while I wouldn't consider it anything like kissing or sleeping with another girl, I would consider it cheating to a lesser degree. In another partnership, maybe we're just not as committed, seeing each other more casually, and even kissing other girls is fine. (Although, lol, I don't think I've ever been in a relationship where I've felt comfortable with that thought.)

I don't know why people cheat - boredom? feeling trapped? feeling overwhelmingly curious or attracted to someone? I've never been one to cheat, so I honestly don't know. I don't think drunkenness is a good excuse, though I have had friends who've been so drunk they didn't even remember having sex. I think if the desire to get out is strong enough, or maybe they're not getting enough attention in the relationship, they dread the painfulness and questioning of a breakup and instead try to simply "add excitement."

I wouldn't say the enabler is as much to blame as the cheater, though; I think that's a bit unfair, as they didn't have the responsibility to the relationship. I think they should respect the person and their relationship, but everyone sees things differently. Perhaps they just wanted to help a friend who's unhappy. Perhaps... I don't know... maybe they do think they can change things. I honestly don't know.

Basically, I do believe in loyalty and responsibility to a relationship. I think that if chosen to commit seriously, I should be for him only - no leading guys on, kissing, anything that would make me feel guilty, basically. And I would expect the same from him. However, I would think even just a little more important to me would be honesty. I've always heard that the best couples admit to their crushes, admit to temptations, because it's out there - it's honest. And that's what I would want just a little bit more.

Can I ask what prompted this discussion? I'm curious to hear everyone's responses!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_venus_/]

Well, to go backwards, what prompted this discussion was a combination of things: the lives of people I know in Real Life, and too much TV. :)

That being said, I completely agree that it depends on what is acceptable within each person's relationship -- which is why it doesn't bother me at all if people have completely open relationships and want to sleep with other people. That's not for me, but if people don't want monogamy, as long as they've both agreed upon this, then I don't see who it hurts. It's more the idea that one person thinks they have one thing ... and the other person knows this, and is going behind their back anyway.

I don't think the enabler is as much to blame. Definitely not. The person in the relationship is the one responsible for making that decision. I don't think an enabler is to blame at all if they didn't even realize. That being said, if they did realize, and kept doing it, it's still crappy, in my opinion. Not as crappy as being the cheater, but it's still willingly helping to hurt someone else.

As for temptations and honesty ... I agree. I don't think there's anything wrong or unnatural with temptation. It's acting on it. If the temptation becomes so great that someoe feels they just HAVE to act on it, then maybe they need to reevaluate the relationship they're already in. Honesty is always the best policy, though, I think -- I would be much more likely to forgive someone who cheated once and confessed than someone who didn't admit to it. I know people make mistakes, and I can even see cheating once as a mistake. It's repeatedly doing it ... that shows an active plan to do it, or that they are blantantly ignoring the consequences.

[hexapuma.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... I guess it all depends on definitions. I mean, if a relationship is essentially over and all that's remaining is the mutual acceptance of that... Is it right to pass up on maybe meeting the love of your life because it would be 'technically' cheating?

If your partner's cheating on you... Doesn't that mean that you're not - strictly speaking - in a relationship so going off with someone else would be fine?

Maybe it's an emotional thing. If you believe that you're cheating then you are, but if you honestly don't believe that you are then maybe not. Cheating is in the eye of the beholder. Like Pornography, you know it when you see it.

If you're married then it's cheating, except - maybe - if you've done everything you can to get a divorce and your spouse is blocking you.

It's a complex topic.

[meiran.livejournal.com]

Meiran could go on and on about this subject. Not from personal experience on either side of a relationship, but as somebody that watched a girl tear apart a group of friends because she couldn't pick which one she wanted to be with.

Or something, we'll never understand her motives since she's not around to explain them now. But it's been five years and it's all still on the surface waiting for more trouble to pop up.

I did want to through in something that the priest said in our counseling session that really made me think. He brought up the fact that our vows (were) going to be to love each other unconditionally. But that most people put on conditions like "If he cheats on me, it's over."

He pointed out that while it might be an easy thing to say, that means you're putting a condition on the relationship. He asked me what I'd do if I found out Zoe cheated and I had to honestly say I didn't know, but I'd just want to talk about it before I decided anything because I didn't want to ever say that I'd just leave him.

Though I've never gotten rid of one of my rules (raise a hand to me and I'm out the door) but I've started to really realize that it's all so hard to describe once you're talking marriage and forever.

That doesn't change the fact that the person who cheats is wrong. I don't care about any grey areas, because you can do things that are only kind of wrong, or sort of wrong. But too many people don't understand what marraige really is, which is forever. They start saying they were going through a hard time, or they were fighting, and they start splitting hairs and you just can't on that. If you're a mature adult you have to admit that you shouldn't have done that.

There are some things where, as Mark mentioned, somebody isn't finalizing the divorce or something like that. But that's a few and far between kind of thing. Seperated? Your still married. Hate your wife and want to leave her? Tell her that and then move on. Otherwise, it's just not a good or nice or respectful thing to do. Maybe it's not as wrong as pretending to be happily married and having twelve mistresses on the side.

But it's still wrong.

I know I'm probably preaching to the choir, but it's something that bugs me because today's society is just crazy in a lot of ways. They go on about how the divorce rate is so high, and yet nobody is stopping to say maybe it's because as a society, we just don't understand what love, committment, and marraige really mean anymore.

I hate to say it, but the Catholics might actually have it right for once.

/rant